Ticketmaster is sent to the principal's office

[nershithegnome]

Feb 5, 2023 13:19:50 GMT -5 smosey wales said:

On perhaps the final note. my friend in the business (who testified at Justice last week) said the assessments above are fairly accurate; a split-up would be worse; TM is not the bad guy but the process is; until everyone goes with a "one price all in" ticket, no one can. And it seems to me that if they all agreed, that in itself would raise concerns.

In all fairness, your “friend in the business” has a vested interest in the current system and can’t be counted on to be subjective. Have you ever heard anyone publicly say “My company with myself at the helm, have been dry fucking customers in the ass for years… we knew about it, know about it & refuse to make even one less cent, dime or dollar regardless of our public perception or possible criminal actions. We support no competition in our field and think the status quo which benefits no one but ourselves should remain in place and without question”….

I mean maybe since the ticketing companies provide no real talent or drawing power, they should not “up charge” the tickets to the point of price gouging. I mean would your friend support a pay cut for all corporate staff and executives down to say… $100K and below… of course not… maybe the “concert pie” doesn’t have enough pieces for everyone from the band, the record label, the venue, the promoter, etc… to all make a million dollars from the tour… somebody may have to make minimum wage…

[smosey wales]

Feb 5, 2023 13:39:12 GMT -5 nershithegnome said:

Feb 5, 2023 13:19:50 GMT -5 smosey wales said:

On perhaps the final note. my friend in the business (who testified at Justice last week) said the assessments above are fairly accurate; a split-up would be worse; TM is not the bad guy but the process is; until everyone goes with a "one price all in" ticket, no one can. And it seems to me that if they all agreed, that in itself would raise concerns.

In all fairness, your “friend in the business” has a vested interest in the current system and can’t be counted on to be subjective. Have you ever heard anyone publicly say “My company with myself at the helm, have been dry fucking customers in the ass for years… we knew about it, know about it & refuse to make even one less cent, dime or dollar regardless of our public perception or possible criminal actions. We support no competition in our field and think the status quo which benefits no one but ourselves should remain in place and without question”….

I mean maybe since the ticketing companies provide no real talent or drawing power, they should not “up charge” the tickets to the point of price gouging. I mean would your friend support a pay cut for all corporate staff and executives down to say… $100K and below… of course not… maybe the “concert pie” doesn’t have enough pieces for everyone from the band, the record label, the venue, the promoter, etc… to all make a million dollars from the tour… somebody may have to make minimum wage…

In complete fairness, you do not describe my friend's business principles at all, and his is not a ticket company anyway. And he has done many things through the years to get the fans better access to the music.  But I don't want to get into a single personality.

anyway, to borrow your "concert pie" analogy, the ticket vendor is just one of the slices, and you don't know that the ticket vendor only takes a couple of bucks in the transaction. The big numbers come from other slices. The artist's slice is carved out and marked; the rest is sliced for many forks, not just the ticket vendor.

Trust me, I'm not defending them, just trying to explain a complicated process the public doesn't understand and certainly doesn't like.

Bear in mind, as well, that the artist's slice of the "concert pie" is not divvied up to the five guys on stage; it's sliced up to agents, managers, crew, sound/light, and the M&M inspector.

[kuriti]

Feb 5, 2023 13:19:50 GMT -5 smosey wales said:

On perhaps the final note. my friend in the business (who testified at Justice last week) said the assessments above are fairly accurate; a split-up would be worse; TM is not the bad guy but the process is; until everyone goes with a "one price all in" ticket, no one can. And it seems to me that if they all agreed, that in itself would raise concerns.

I am sure these arguments are legitimate and there are even better counter arguments than we are making. However, the whole thing just feels like when I call some customer service line and they start explaining their internal shitty processes as the reason for my complaint. I usually say, “that’s great but I don’t get paid to fix your shitty process, I am the customer, just fix it for me.”

[smosey wales]

Feb 6, 2023 6:24:28 GMT -5 kuriti said:

Feb 5, 2023 13:19:50 GMT -5 smosey wales said:

On perhaps the final note. my friend in the business (who testified at Justice last week) said the assessments above are fairly accurate; a split-up would be worse; TM is not the bad guy but the process is; until everyone goes with a "one price all in" ticket, no one can. And it seems to me that if they all agreed, that in itself would raise concerns.

I am sure these arguments are legitimate and there are even better counter arguments than we are making. However, the whole thing just feels like when I call some customer service line and they start explaining their internal shitty processes as the reason for my complaint. I usually say, “that’s great but I don’t get paid to fix your shitty process, I am the customer, just fix it for me.”

Can't agree more. All agree that the flaw in the process is the reeking customer dissatisfaction. The businesses know, too, just like consumer products sellers know we hate the impossibly sealed plastic packaging, but find it overall necessary.

What we've learned from the information collected above is that yelling at ticketmaster is like yelling at the cashier at Walmart--the decision is made elsewhere. Going to single price might even end up worse for us consumers, as would a break-up.

There are a lot of similarities with the sentiment to eliminate tipping waiters, and the daunting effort to switch that over, nationally, at one time.

[smosey wales]

So now AMC movie theaters are going to charge a couple bucks more for seats with the better view (center), and a couple bucks less for those with a lesser view (sides, front rows). Sounds like they will have to go to assigned seats. Anything to tap more revenue!

[nershithegnome]

Feb 5, 2023 18:25:55 GMT -5 smosey wales said:

Feb 5, 2023 13:39:12 GMT -5 nershithegnome said:

In all fairness, your “friend in the business” has a vested interest in the current system and can’t be counted on to be subjective. Have you ever heard anyone publicly say “My company with myself at the helm, have been dry fucking customers in the ass for years… we knew about it, know about it & refuse to make even one less cent, dime or dollar regardless of our public perception or possible criminal actions. We support no competition in our field and think the status quo which benefits no one but ourselves should remain in place and without question”….

I mean maybe since the ticketing companies provide no real talent or drawing power, they should not “up charge” the tickets to the point of price gouging. I mean would your friend support a pay cut for all corporate staff and executives down to say… $100K and below… of course not… maybe the “concert pie” doesn’t have enough pieces for everyone from the band, the record label, the venue, the promoter, etc… to all make a million dollars from the tour… somebody may have to make minimum wage…

In complete fairness, you do not describe my friend's business principles at all, and his is not a ticket company anyway. And he has done many things through the years to get the fans better access to the music.  But I don't want to get into a single personality.

anyway, to borrow your "concert pie" analogy, the ticket vendor is just one of the slices, and you don't know that the ticket vendor only takes a couple of bucks in the transaction. The big numbers come from other slices. The artist's slice is carved out and marked; the rest is sliced for many forks, not just the ticket vendor.

Trust me, I'm not defending them, just trying to explain a complicated process the public doesn't understand and certainly doesn't like.

Bear in mind, as well, that the artist's slice of the "concert pie" is not divvied up to the five guys on stage; it's sliced up to agents, managers, crew, sound/light, and the M&M inspector.

I guess what I’m saying is… regardless of the size of the pie, there’s too many people asking for a big slice, when they outta be happy with a sliver. When “Rock N’ Roll” was super big & profitable 50 years ago, there wasn’t that many hands in the till, today everybody & their brother has their hands out.

When I started going to concerts in the late 90’s tickets would be $35-$50 with a $3.50 service fee… that’s a 10%-15% mark up on the service fee based on ticket price… today that same ticket is $60-$70 and the service fee is $25-$35 dollars or 40% - 50% added on to the ticket… so if they could all make money 20 years ago with a 10% mark up then they should be able to do the same today… or they outta let somebody else run their business who has better business sense. The only reason they charge more is because of greed, it’s hard to fix that. And I know of no business that is better because there is no competition… lack of competition retards innovation, keeps the status quo even when it’s stale and doesn’t motivate the the product to improve or benefit the consumer.

[smosey wales]

All valid points, but perhaps tempered a bit by this consideration: In those early days of arena shows for me--Joe Cocker, or REO Speedwagon/Aerosmith in 1973  for about $6.00 plus a $1.25 fee--they came out in jeans and flannels, had two stacks of speakers on the stage and some monitors, a bank or two of lights plus a couple of travelling spots, no video or visuals (OK there was the wet show on the overhead projector borrowed from the high school). Ride on the same bus to the next show.

The music was the whole show. Then along came Elton John...and the show became the show. The audience expects--and pays--for more than a state fair stage experience. 

Who dares slash prices and go back to that?

[estprofinhumboldt]

Feb 8, 2023 17:00:44 GMT -5 smosey wales said:

All valid points, but perhaps tempered a bit by this consideration: In those early days of arena shows for me--Joe Cocker, or REO Speedwagon/Aerosmith in 1973  for about $6.00 plus a $1.25 fee--they came out in jeans and flannels, had two stacks of speakers on the stage and some monitors, a bank or two of lights plus a couple of travelling spots, no video or visuals (OK there was the wet show on the overhead projector borrowed from the high school). Ride on the same bus to the next show.

The music was the whole show. Then along came Elton John...and the show became the show. The audience expects--and pays--for more than a state fair stage experience. 

Who dares slash prices and go back to that?

The only time I saw Elton John he dropped in on a beach boys concert in a helicopter, I paid $7.50 for that ticket from ticket bastard

[kuriti]

Feb 8, 2023 17:00:44 GMT -5 smosey wales said:

All valid points, but perhaps tempered a bit by this consideration: In those early days of arena shows for me--Joe Cocker, or REO Speedwagon/Aerosmith in 1973  for about $6.00 plus a $1.25 fee--they came out in jeans and flannels, had two stacks of speakers on the stage and some monitors, a bank or two of lights plus a couple of travelling spots, no video or visuals (OK there was the wet show on the overhead projector borrowed from the high school). Ride on the same bus to the next show.

The music was the whole show. Then along came Elton John...and the show became the show. The audience expects--and pays--for more than a state fair stage experience. 

Who dares slash prices and go back to that?

All the bands I plan on seeing over the next two years cause I’m broke, or at least I’m choosing not to spend money on shows for a while. 

[smosey wales]

Feb 9, 2023 5:20:56 GMT -5 kuriti said:

Feb 8, 2023 17:00:44 GMT -5 smosey wales said:

All valid points, but perhaps tempered a bit by this consideration: In those early days of arena shows for me--Joe Cocker, or REO Speedwagon/Aerosmith in 1973  for about $6.00 plus a $1.25 fee--they came out in jeans and flannels, had two stacks of speakers on the stage and some monitors, a bank or two of lights plus a couple of travelling spots, no video or visuals (OK there was the wet show on the overhead projector borrowed from the high school). Ride on the same bus to the next show.

The music was the whole show. Then along came Elton John...and the show became the show. The audience expects--and pays--for more than a state fair stage experience. 

Who dares slash prices and go back to that?

All the bands I plan on seeing over the next two years cause I’m broke, or at least I’m choosing not to spend money on shows for a while. 

I seldom go to the big shows, mainly due to the price. I have as much fun at the bar bands/small venue/listening room shows.  Four hours of good Grateful Dead, free parking, walk around, dance, $5 PBR, $20 all in.

[smosey wales]

liveforlivemusic.com/news/bruce-springsteen-tickets-plummet-days-ahead-of-concert/?mc_cid=1eeec0dd08&mc_eid=6f6305b490


"Less than a week before an upcoming show in Tulsa, OK, however, Bruce Springsteen tickets have dropped from over $1,000 to under $10 on the resale market. Tickets sold through Ticketmaster—which remember had reached $5,000 “based on demand”—have bottomed out at around $70 with fees, and they only remain that high due to a resale price floor implemented by Ticketmaster, which limits how low prices can get. Sites without imposed minimums such as StubHub had tickets available for about $7 with fees at publication time."

So....Dead & Co?

[The Other One]

Tell me how two ticket brokers can list the very same seats for the same show? Not similar seats, the very same seats! Vivid tickets and StubHub listed these seats. Are they the same company? If this is speculation how do they know these seats are available?

[lobster]

Feb 21, 2023 22:00:24 GMT -5 The Other One said:

Tell me how two ticket brokers can list the very same seats for the same show? Not similar seats, the very same seats! Vivid tickets and StubHub listed these seats. Are they the same company? If this is speculation how do they know these seats are available?

My stepmom recently bought 2 tickets to the eagles on stubhub, very overpriced I may add. Well they are not the most technically inclined so she asked me to help her get the tickets into her ticketmaster account.

When I finally got access to the account (whole other story lol) the tickets were in the same section but 5 rows or so closer. She starts freaking out thinking she had purchased 2 pairs of tickets. After talking with stubhub seems like she just got an upgrade. But my question is, what happened to the original pair? Double listed probably

[grumbly-one]

Did anyone here end up with lawn tickets for jiffy lube d&c?

I was looking at them I think on day one and they were gone, and I havent seen a single resale ticket on the ticketmaster/live nation site. Although there are plenty of $380 resale tickets for sale.

Just wondering if its ticketmaster fuckery or if there really are none for sale.

[The Other One]

Feb 22, 2023 12:16:50 GMT -5 lobster said:

Feb 21, 2023 22:00:24 GMT -5 The Other One said:

Tell me how two ticket brokers can list the very same seats for the same show? Not similar seats, the very same seats! Vivid tickets and StubHub listed these seats. Are they the same company? If this is speculation how do they know these seats are available?

My stepmom recently bought 2 tickets to the eagles on stubhub, very overpriced I may add. Well they are not the most technically inclined so she asked me to help her get the tickets into her ticketmaster account.

When I finally got access to the account (whole other story lol) the tickets were in the same section but 5 rows or so closer. She starts freaking out thinking she had purchased 2 pairs of tickets. After talking with stubhub seems like she just got an upgrade. But my question is, what happened to the original pair? Double listed probably

I can't figure it out. I bought 4 tickets from stubhub ( I know, I know) and don't even know my seat numbers. I just know what section and row for now. 40% in fees on top of the ticket price! No, I won't tell you what I paid but this is a birthday trip for Vickie so it doesn't really matter...

[The Other One]

Feb 22, 2023 12:26:46 GMT -5 grumbly-one said:

Did anyone here end up with lawn tickets for jiffy lube d&c?

I was looking at them I think on day one and they were gone, and I havent seen a single resale ticket on the ticketmaster/live nation site. Although there are plenty of $380 resale tickets for sale.

Just wondering if its ticketmaster fuckery or if there really are none for sale.

I think they will become available closer to show date. I'll keep an eye out as well. Cash or Trade has many ISO posts for lawn tickets but none for sale. With this level of ticket sales DeadCO may just do a Final Tour every year!

[smosey wales]

Feb 22, 2023 13:57:40 GMT -5 The Other One said:

Feb 22, 2023 12:26:46 GMT -5 grumbly-one said:

Did anyone here end up with lawn tickets for jiffy lube d&c?

I was looking at them I think on day one and they were gone, and I havent seen a single resale ticket on the ticketmaster/live nation site. Although there are plenty of $380 resale tickets for sale.

Just wondering if its ticketmaster fuckery or if there really are none for sale.

I think they will become available closer to show date. I'll keep an eye out as well. Cash or Trade has many ISO posts for lawn tickets but none for sale. With this level of ticket sales DeadCO may just do a Final Tour every year!

They wouldn't be the first act to do a last ever no more final tour, annually.  Reminds me of a boat named Never Again IV.

[smosey wales]

Feb 21, 2023 22:00:24 GMT -5 The Other One said:

Tell me how two ticket brokers can list the very same seats for the same show? Not similar seats, the very same seats! Vivid tickets and StubHub listed these seats. Are they the same company? If this is speculation how do they know these seats are available?

I think this indicates that each vendor has access to the same tickets being held by Ticketmaster or maybe even a higher tier seller. Just like tickets at the box office, once a certain seat is sold, it's gone. You've seen it when you select a seat and when you close out the deal, you get "oops too late" or they shuttle you off to a seat nearby.

Obfuscation is their friend.

[longhair1218]

Feb 21, 2023 16:40:08 GMT -5 smosey wales said:

liveforlivemusic.com/news/bruce-springsteen-tickets-plummet-days-ahead-of-concert/?mc_cid=1eeec0dd08&mc_eid=6f6305b490


"Less than a week before an upcoming show in Tulsa, OK, however, Bruce Springsteen tickets have dropped from over $1,000 to under $10 on the resale market. Tickets sold through Ticketmaster—which remember had reached $5,000 “based on demand”—have bottomed out at around $70 with fees, and they only remain that high due to a resale price floor implemented by Ticketmaster, which limits how low prices can get. Sites without imposed minimums such as StubHub had tickets available for about $7 with fees at publication time."

So....Dead & Co?

Lol everyone was just looking for something to get outraged about. Can’t beat a 10 dollar ticket.

[nershithegnome]

I think the Springsteen concert being in Tulsa has more to do with prices falling & low demand than any other factor. If you put Toby Keith or Clint Black or Garth Brooks in Tulsa the same night it would probably be crazy high prices because they are a better fit for the market. Also, a market like Tulsa may just not be able to sustain $1000 ticket prices. There’s just not enough buyers at that price point for it to hold. Whereas, in say NYC you have 100 times the number of buyers to keep the artificial price in place. Furthermore I doubt we see Springsteen tickets at MSG or “full on the blank east coast arena” fall to $6 a ticket.

As for Dead & Co tickets, the demand is inflated & artificial for sure. There’s always tickets on the ground to every Dead & Co show as long you just want in the door (Red Rocks being the exception). I think the prices will drop to close to face for most tickets and lawns with upper deck stadium tickets going for under current face value either on the secondary market or sold in 4 for $100 packages by the venue closer to the show. As for the lawn being sold out at every southern venue, that’s weird. Maybe they held back tickets for that “Season Lawn Pass” thing and they’ll re-release the leftovers or maybe they just got bought up by scalpers, promotions & fans but I find it hard to believe that.

[smosey wales]

Feb 22, 2023 17:00:17 GMT -5 nershithegnome said:

I think the Springsteen concert being in Tulsa has more to do with prices falling & low demand than any other factor. If you put Toby Keith or Clint Black or Garth Brooks in Tulsa the same night it would probably be crazy high prices because they are a better fit for the market. Also, a market like Tulsa may just not be able to sustain $1000 ticket prices. There’s just not enough buyers at that price point for it to hold. Whereas, in say NYC you have 100 times the number of buyers to keep the artificial price in place. Furthermore I doubt we see Springsteen tickets at MSG or “full on the blank east coast arena” fall to $6 a ticket.

As for Dead & Co tickets, the demand is inflated & artificial for sure. There’s always tickets on the ground to every Dead & Co show as long you just want in the door (Red Rocks being the exception). I think the prices will drop to close to face for most tickets and lawns with upper deck stadium tickets going for under current face value either on the secondary market or sold in 4 for $100 packages by the venue closer to the show. As for the lawn being sold out at every southern venue, that’s weird. Maybe they held back tickets for that “Season Lawn Pass” thing and they’ll re-release the leftovers or maybe they just got bought up by scalpers, promotions & fans but I find it hard to believe that.

I agree about the false equivalency of nosebleed seats in Tulsa on a week night v. NYC for Bruce. But there is something interesting about it anyway. 

As for Dead Co--I saw this first hand a couple years ago at their two night run at Hampton when I couldn't sell extra tickets at the door full price, and had an interesting discussion with a legit scalper about the same.

On the lawn seats, often the "season grass pass" is not good for big shows.  For Chris Stapleton Virginia Beach in July, they opened sales with VIP Lawn Seats at $165. You got some merch and access to a VIP tent, a chair, but you still sat on the grass way in the back, and unprotected from rain. Takes a certain audience....

[smosey wales]

not much to see here

www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/the-senators-who-grilled-ticketmaster-s-executives-over-taylor-swift-tickets-want-the-department-of-justice-to-keep-examining-the-company-s-merger-with-live-nation/ar-AA17QYPZ?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=c8ea221fb1424cb892676b12c70dce10

[nershithegnome]

Feb 23, 2023 8:01:18 GMT -5 smosey wales said:

Feb 22, 2023 17:00:17 GMT -5 nershithegnome said:

I think the Springsteen concert being in Tulsa has more to do with prices falling & low demand than any other factor. If you put Toby Keith or Clint Black or Garth Brooks in Tulsa the same night it would probably be crazy high prices because they are a better fit for the market. Also, a market like Tulsa may just not be able to sustain $1000 ticket prices. There’s just not enough buyers at that price point for it to hold. Whereas, in say NYC you have 100 times the number of buyers to keep the artificial price in place. Furthermore I doubt we see Springsteen tickets at MSG or “full on the blank east coast arena” fall to $6 a ticket.

As for Dead & Co tickets, the demand is inflated & artificial for sure. There’s always tickets on the ground to every Dead & Co show as long you just want in the door (Red Rocks being the exception). I think the prices will drop to close to face for most tickets and lawns with upper deck stadium tickets going for under current face value either on the secondary market or sold in 4 for $100 packages by the venue closer to the show. As for the lawn being sold out at every southern venue, that’s weird. Maybe they held back tickets for that “Season Lawn Pass” thing and they’ll re-release the leftovers or maybe they just got bought up by scalpers, promotions & fans but I find it hard to believe that.

I agree about the false equivalency of nosebleed seats in Tulsa on a week night v. NYC for Bruce. But there is something interesting about it anyway. 

As for Dead Co--I saw this first hand a couple years ago at their two night run at Hampton when I couldn't sell extra tickets at the door full price, and had an interesting discussion with a legit scalper about the same.

On the lawn seats, often the "season grass pass" is not good for big shows.  For Chris Stapleton Virginia Beach in July, they opened sales with VIP Lawn Seats at $165. You got some merch and access to a VIP tent, a chair, but you still sat on the grass way in the back, and unprotected from rain. Takes a certain audience....

I’m that “certain audience” for sure. Lol… I’ve probably been to 300 shows at Sheds (Deer Creek, Alpine, Pine Knob, Blossom & Shoreline mostly) and I don’t think I’ve ever set in the pavilion for a show except in 1990 I was 10 years old & my Dad took me to see Gallagher (the comedian) and we sat 2nd row. I was into that shit as a kid. Lol.

[estprofinhumboldt]

Feb 22, 2023 14:54:34 GMT -5 smosey wales said:

Feb 22, 2023 13:57:40 GMT -5 The Other One said:

I think they will become available closer to show date. I'll keep an eye out as well. Cash or Trade has many ISO posts for lawn tickets but none for sale. With this level of ticket sales DeadCO may just do a Final Tour every year!

They wouldn't be the first act to do a last ever no more final tour, annually.  Reminds me of a boat named Never Again IV.

It The Who boat that might be XIV

[longhair1218]

Feb 23, 2023 12:06:48 GMT -5 smosey wales said:

not much to see here

www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/the-senators-who-grilled-ticketmaster-s-executives-over-taylor-swift-tickets-want-the-department-of-justice-to-keep-examining-the-company-s-merger-with-live-nation/ar-AA17QYPZ?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=c8ea221fb1424cb892676b12c70dce10